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League should be balanced around casual and low elo

League of legends is a game and should be balanced around its core playerbase not its professional scene, as professionals job is to adapt to the meta as we saw back when Sneaky had to int on Cassio because RIot decided to gut adcs. Casual players and low elo players should not be forced to adapt to changes made for pro play, because it's a game for us, not a job. Its not our job to be good at the game, and we shouldn't be punished because a pro player played a game of our champ got a penta and now riot's 200 year's of collective experience is shitting itself in panic.


  • PrandinePrandine Moderator
    edited July 2

    So basically you're saying only pro players should have to adapt while non-pros shouldn't, is that right? If so then that's a very selfish and closed-minded way of thinking. While I agree that pro play should not be what gets balanced around 100% of the time, I don't agree that casual and low-elo players shouldn't be forced to adapt as that's not fair on the players and it's not fair on Riot. Like it or not players of all skill levels are gonna have to adapt if they want to actually win games. Besides if players never adapted and innovated then new strategies would never be invented or discovered.

  • I think things that are blatantly overpowered should be nerfed, but the majority feels like there is not nearly as much concern for low elo and casual players rather than pro level and high elo

  • The problem with that is that there's no real option for high elo to get around certain champions being OP.

    You deal with Yi (or any other pubstomper) in low elo by simply getting better at the game. He's demonstrably not OP in high tier, so you know once you're actually good at the game he stops being a problem. However, while high elo players can get better at the game to get around, say...Azir being OP (no idea if he actually is strong in high elo or not, but he's one of the iconic champions who usually are useless in low tier and OP in high tier), it's far less effective, because it's not just that you didn't understand how to beat him and you finally learn how to, but rather that you simply had to get far more skilled than your opponent.

    To beat Yi, you have to understand that you have to shut him down early and you can't let him snowball, or he'll be uncontrollable late-game, and you need a decent amount of CC on your team to handle him. Once you know that (and, of course, actually do those things), he stops being a problem. If you compare that to Azir, though, there's no specific thing you need to figure out to be on even terms with him - He's just that much stronger than the average champion in skilled hands.

    If Riot ignored those outliers, there'd effectively only be a few champions viable at high elo since everything else would be far too weak in comparison, and there'd be no escape from those champions. It'd be like pre-balance URF all over again - Ban the top 6, then pick the 7-11th best champions, and if you picked anything below top tier you were basically trolling, because the top tier was so much better than the rest.

    Ruining high elo like that would just cause problems for low elo, too. Unless you played that top tier already, there'd be no reason to bother getting to high elo unless you wanted to be forced to re-learn your entire pool, which would lead to a lot more smurfs and a lot more inting just to keep in low elo so they could actually play the champions they wanted.

  • Well the real problem is things like Yi that are strong on High and Low Elo because Funneling exists in high elo and he is a pubstomp champ in general.

    Now there is no definitive answer, because the definitive answer would be "Pubstomp bad" but the only way to fix that is changing champs that pubstomp which their players would dislike more than likely

    But I still stand by the fact that the focus of game balance should be on Gold and Below and casual play, because at the end of the day league is a game, and if you can't adapt around certain things in higher elo you probably shouldn't be high elo. Thats not to say nothing should be balanced due to high elo, but that high Elo shouldn't be the focus of balance

  • CytheGuyCytheGuy Member

    The problem here shows up when a champion or group of champions are simply so powerful that you can't adapt to other than push their ban rates to 100%. When Azir was at the top of the tier lists in high elo he was almost unbeatable, so you just had to ban him so you didn't lose to him. It didn't matter how much you tried to "adapt" because a competent Azir player would just be better than you.

    I'm personally against balancing around pro players, like the teams in LCS/LCK/LPL, but I think balancing around Master-Challenger tier play is the right idea because these are the players that will find out if there is a stupidly OP champ/item/build that you simply can't outskill. They are also the players that are competitive enough to find out what champs/builds/items are that good. As far as sources of information for what's imbalanced, high elo players are going to be the best source because they will find the ins and outs of the game faster and more reliably than any other skill group.

  • I think that really comes down to an choice of what we'd define as Pro Player balance choices

    For example I'd say if champs like Kalista, Akali, Pantheon, and such are finding success in high elo its a sign the champion isn't balanced, whereas when a Yi runs amuck in low elo its just "working as intended" basically, and the conversation should really lead to "when is this no longer a balance issue so much as a design issue?"

    Akali being able to build spirits visage and still being able to assassinate the back line is problematic, but its only when Akali is problematic to pro players that it seems to become a point of contention for the balance team and I think that should change. The balance team and the design team need to have a get together every so often and say "Hey this isn't okay, tweaking numbers won't fix this" but they largely don't, and things like wukong get reworked rather than Tryndamere or Jax or Yi or Udyr who are all feast or famine AA spamming pubstomp champions that are unfun to play against, but they aren't seen in pro play for the most part so they just stay as they are.

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